[Campaign] Superconsciousness Fwd: SANITY REIGNS: Architects, engineers present the facts of 9/11
Love For Life Campaign
action at loveforlife.com.au
Tue Jul 24 21:22:46 EST 2007
Mike said:
July 24th 4.58am
m c wrote: This is not a new debate here. I've already seen and heard to
many if's, and's or but's about the WTC.
Did you check out what would happen with a natural gas explosion and
what it do with an acclerant like jet fuel?
There are no mountains of evidence... there are mountains of
speculation. The possibility of a collapse of the WTC was a simple
precaution. We always evacuated people from buildings on fire because
the possibility of full involment and collapse has to be treated as
immenant. Imagine what would have happened and the loss of life if the
people were allowed to stay or took their time getting out.
Wouldn't it be just as plausible that if there were bombs planted they
they were planted by Islamic terrorists. Why the automatic assumption
that our own people did such a thing unless it fits your own agenda?
Over 17 Arabs have been proven to have participated in the bombings and
one of the ring leaders, a man who had entered the United Stares on an
Iraqi passport under the name of Ramzi Yousef--was involved in another
stupendous bombing conspiracy. In January 1995, Yousef and his
associates plotted to blow up eleven U.S. commercial aircraft in one
spectacular day of terrorist rage. The bombs were to be made of a liquid
explosive designed to pass through airport
metal detectors. But while mixing his chemical brew in a Manila
apartment, Yousef started a fire. He was forced to flee, leaving behind
a computer that contained the information that led to his arrest a month
later in Pakistan. Among the items found in his possession was a letter
threatening Filipino interests if a comrade held in custody were not
released. It claimed the "ability to make and use chemicals and
poisonous gas... for use against vital institutions and residential
populations and the sources of drinking water."
http://www.fas.org/irp/world/iraq/956-tni.htm
<http://www.fas.org/irp/world/iraq/956-tni.htm>
In a 2004 video, apparently acknowledging responsibility for the
attacks, bin Laden states that he was motivated by the 1982 Lebanon War,
for which he held the U.S. partially responsible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11,_2001_attacks
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11,_2001_attacks>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_tapes
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_tapes>
I admit to being caustic... and even worse but I try my damdest not to
attack anyone personally given a preferance of dealing with the issue
instead. In my nearly 10 years on this list, I do not recall ever having
called anyone a liar... show me where I did.
Mike
querier2003 at yahoo.com
--------------------------------------------
Mike
ONE. The evidence, where you implied that we are liars is located near
the bottom of this email.
TWO: Would you like for me to forward to you all the emails you sent us
and Superconsciousness where you have tried to discredit us by trying to
write off/destroy our personalities/characters. Where you tried very
hard to shoot the messenger?
THREE: We have not received a reply from Acharya regarding the question
we asked yesterday for her to answer? Are you her mouthpiece Mike
regarding Muslims/Arabs and 9/11? (Those questions to Acharya are near
bottom of this email.)
FOUR. Take a look at this video. Anybody with any doubts about how the
World Trade Centre towers were brought down need only view this short
video to dispel those doubts. Called the 9/11 Meteor for reaching
temperatures like the one at the earth's core, compressed at least four
levels of the WTC. NBC's head Brian Williams presented "9/11 5 Years
Later - Hangar 17." The iron structures were carefully selected and
marked with the word "SAVE," other compromising structures were
destroyed. All the material preserved there is less than 1% of the
complete crime scene, evidence rapidly sold to China by the pesky
cover-upper Giuliani. However, that "9/11 meteor" still is a living
witness of the very advanced technology used to pull down the attacks
and the buildings at the World Trade Centre (WTC2, WTC1 and WTC7.)
Here is a link to an excerpt of this broadcast - 1 minute 37
seconds: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzOuyin_2as
Are you still sure that Muslims with smuggled plastic explosives did
this? And if they did, then how did they go about bringing the buildings
down just like a pancake?
And what about the dozens of recorded conversations with the fireman,
some who reached level 78 of the South Tower just before it collapsed.
They reported explosions going off below and above them and that there
was no high temperature fires raging in the building? How do you explain
this?
Are you saying that you have watched all the 9/11 videos listed in our
website?
Here is just one of the latest called
9/11 Ripple Effect - Full Length Film - 1 Hour 26 Minutes - </node/1006>
http://www.loveforlife.com.au/node/1006
Have you seen this video?
Or this one:
9/11 Explosive Reality - Network TV coverage. Testimony & Commentary On
September 11 2001 - Excellent </node/849>
12 parts - 2 hours: http://www.loveforlife.com.au/node/849
Or this one:
DOZENS of live video references to the multiple internal explosions that
brought down the Twin Tower and World Trade Center 7:
</node/728>http://www.loveforlife.com.au/node/728
How about this one:
September Clues - Did A 2nd Plane Hit WTC2 Or Was It A Missile Covered
Up By Graphics?
You Decide What It Is. June 6th 2007 -
http://www.loveforlife.com.au/node/911
This video will stretch your imagination. Have you seen this one?
Or This One:
Webster Tarpley - The 9/11 Issue - How to stop World War III - Video - 2
Hours
http://www.loveforlife.com.au/node/952
Or this one:
911 And The British Broadcasting Conspiracy - Documentary By Adrian
Connock and David Shayler - 1 Hour 21 Min
25th June 2007: http://www.loveforlife.com.au/node/868
How about this one:
9/11: Disappearing Explosions - Now you hear it, now you don't - Video
Brasscheck TV </node/646>
http://www.loveforlife.com.au/node/646
Or this one:
Keep Your Eye On That Building, It'll Be Coming Down Soon - Building
Number 7 + Many Other 9/11 Videos
http://www.loveforlife.com.au/node/596
Mike
Why have you intentionally avoided answering each one of the 9/11
questions I have presented to you?
Are they too difficult for you?
If not, then please answer each one of them and if you are going to
rebut them, then I want to see solid gold unarguable facts/evidence to
back up your rebuttal. My questions to you and Acharya are cut and
pasted below.
You also said in another email: "I agree. But most of this conspiracy
theory stuff has already been rebutted."
What a load of rubbish Mike. Where is the unarguable evidence that an
impartial jury of twelve have rebutted all the evidence?
Also, How did the women get to stand at the entrance to the WTC gaping
hole made by one of the 9/11 planes/missiles?
How did she & others manage to avoid (get around) the "government's
official version" of intense, very high temperature fires causing WTC1
and WTC2 buildings to collapse with a pancake effect?
Red hot pools of molten steel were still simmering away many weeks later
after 9/11. How did this happen?
Why were numerous WTC steel support frames found with MAN-MADE angle
cuts on them, most with molten steel running down the sides, within 8
hours after both buildings collapsed?
Also, where is the unarguable evidence that proves 17 Arabs did it?
In terms of your belief in the "Rule Of Law", Have any impartial jury of
twelve been involved and said YES Arab's/Muslim's are guilty?
Where is the unarguable evidence that clearly proves that Osama Bin
Laden admits that he was behind 9/11?
The only supposed evidence your government ever came up with was the
recorded video of Osama Bin laden admitting that he was involved with
9/11. The only problem with this video is that it was not Osama Bin
Laden in the video. Are you aware of this? Have you seen this video?
There is no other evidence that your government has which they could
file in court and say "here is the unarguable proof".
Mike said this: It is a truism that you tend to become like those with
whom you associate. "The most noticeable change in the modern high-rise
construction is a trend to using more steel and shaping lightweight
steel into tubes, curves, and angles to increase its load bearing
capability. The WTC has tubular steel bearing walls, fluted corrugated
steel flooring and bent bar steel truss floor supports."
http://www.lafire.com/famous_fires/2001-0911_WTC/2002-0500_LA-Firefighter_WTC-BuildingCollapse_Dunn.htm
<http://www.lafire.com/famous_fires/2001-0911_WTC/2002-0500_LA-Firefighter_WTC-BuildingCollapse_Dunn.htm>
And This: So little do you know. I, very rarely, had any dealings with
those in power. When I did, it was usually confrontational. I was a beat
cop. My criminal dealings were with rapists, drug dealers, and lower
echelon mobsters. I ran radar a couple of times and all I did was issue
warnings... no tickets. I have delivered babies, administered first aid
and fought fires. I secured crime scenes and did some investigative and
research work. I was a dispatcher and provided security dignitaries. I
was a licensed EMT, certified fire-fighter and police officer. The
streets were my beat. I have saved lives and helped people all my life.
Before you go making assumptions and casting aspersions about people, it
would behoove you to get to know them. Otherwise, you prove your self a
fool.
He also said this: I am open to all scenarios... but my take on a thing
is and will always be: "I am from Missouri, you must show me." You do
not arrest people on theory and that is what I am hearing in these
debates. Further, anytime I hear someone go personal when asked to show
cause, it shows me just how simplistic one must be to be unable to rise
above themselves. It only stands to reason that if one criticizes, it
stands to reason that they should have something in mind to replace it.
Without solutions, a criticism is worthless.
And this: The problem is that more engineers, by far, have come forward
with logical explanations than those that have promoted an agenda of
conspiracy. It boils down to who you want to believe and that is a
matter of ones own agenda.
And this: I'm not like that, I simply do not accept what is dished
out... just because it fits some nebulous preconceived ideas about
things. Without proof, it's all vapors and wind.
And this: I was born armed... besides, I am a weapon.
And this: Thank you, you make my point. As for making things better, I
am pro constitution as the way to address most social issues. It's when
things get off track that we become mired. We have the tools to create
a society right here. What is needed is the heart for it.
And this: Nice try, but no cigar. We need the detractors in a free
society. It keeps everyone on their toes and thinking about the
political process. But by a like token, if that is a path chosen, then
it too must be willing to face its detractors when they are asked to
show cause without an emotional rebuttal on how they feel about it.
And this: I agree with this too... There's nothing wrong with
patriotism, except that it does not interfere with the rule of law.
And this: What you have said here has nothing to do with what I said. We
enjoy more freedom than just about any country in the world. If you
think you can find one better, why don't you try living there. Talk is
cheap.
And this: On the other hand, the image to which I refered was the one
you see in the mirror. To often it is a mental picture of something not
real or present or something believed not real.
And this: On the other hand it could have just as easily happened the
way it was seen by millions of people who watched it on tv as it
transpired. Conspiracy theory seeks to explain a matter as a plot by a
secret group or alliance rather than an individual or isolated act.Very
often it is the fodder of the paranoid.
And this: We are no different from any other life form... we still react
to existence from the same instinctual basis that any other life form
does. Instinct is the basis of intelligence. Instinct in humans has
advanced intelligence in that it provides memory of yesterday that
allows adjustment for tomorrow's possibility and it allows us to relay
that information among ourselves so that all may share in that
information. This advancement allows us to adjust to nature even while
we are living and providing an edge over other life forms which must
rely on genetic changes of an extended period of time. Ignorance comes
in many forms.
We are what we know and hold true. Ignorance can be a lack of knowledge
and it can also be a rejection of it to hold true to what it has already
accepted as what it needs to survive. Belief takes up where knowledge
leaves off. Belief is like a genetic adjustment to change... sometimes
it can take many generations to make alterations to a consistent demand
on it before it can finally make the proper adjustment to the change
being pressured on it.
Believe is not the same as know. Belief has disbelief to counter it
whereas, we cannot dis-know, we may be ignorant of fact and we may
refute fact... demanding it show cause, where what we feel is exempt
from such a process. One can make all manner of claims in the name of
belief and find some who may agree and have faith in same but when the
physicality of existence is presented, most will acknowledge it as so...
where belief has no need of observable fact. Its concerns are feelings
expressed and accepted as a fact. The physical exists and can be proven
while what we feel, no matter how devoutly believed, does not exist and
cannot present fact in its support. Belief takes up where fact leaves off.
With belief there is nothing to demonstrate to the senses. It exists
within us as emotion or thought... and is an experience exclusive to
ourselves. Belief can only be experienced within the individual. Like
love, hate, and fear... no one can know exactly what our experience of
them is like.
Facts can be known by the mind through the senses and are unlike
imagination, illusion or fantasy where sensory experience can be shared
and known by others via their own direct experience of them. Human
beings tend to allow belief to create a mental construct that is
accepted on faith which lives within its own reality in importance,
even to obsessiveness, even while treated as fact.
These are constructs of emotional needs, desires, interests and reasons
in which humans are driven to fulfill and live by. Belief is an
emotional response to existence. Emotion is a process that readies us to
take action as a spur to behavior that produces bodily sensations,
injects hormones and increases heart rate that result from events,
cognition and the physiology of brain and body working in concert.
Beliefs answer emotional need, desire, doubt, fear, insecurity,
dissatisfaction, indecision, social pressure, et al. Faith cannot
replace them because when facts are doubted, they can be justified
through methods of verification where faith cannot. Belief answers doubt
with faith and assumes itself as fact while disregarding its motivation.
Beliefs can then become beyond doubt. Belief is proactive, it is a
prepared response where emotion is a spur to action and decision without
need for thought or consideration. It can be as shaping to a life as to
commit and bind it by non questioning and obedience to external sources,
in a freedom from personal responsibility even though external
influences may not have that life's welfare in mind. Belief attributes a
name and face to our fears and that which is not known but is felt.
Children believe easily... Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy
are real to them, because children have not developed sufficient
discriminatory skills to differentiate reality from imagination. Adults
can also fall prey to immature thinking due to fear, distrust, mental
illness, awe, or other emotions. Some become enveloped in mental
aberrations from self induced hypnotic hallucinations which can seem so
real that they convince the brain that it has experienced observable
fact. Such events add false certainty to beliefs. Belief can be
diminished as knowledge discovers and renames what was once unknown but
only if open to its possibility. Belief often rejects anything that it
has already settled upon as its method of response to the environment.
We are deluged in ideas, facts and beliefs, today. We learn by three
basic methods: From an accepted authority, by our own direct experience
and from our own intuitive thinking processes. We tend to accept the
experiences of others and honor them instinctlively as though factual
on a survival level. Today, facts inundate society at such a rate that
we easily slip into a refuge of belief as a shield against the
onslaught. To test this information barrage would be impossible. So, we
learn to live by only picking up on those things that pertain to our
existence and what interests us. Belief becomes myth as children's
stories become cartoons. Belief is a caricature of reality.
And this: I don't "know" exactly what cause the collapse of the WTC. I
have worked around blast furnaces and understand the principle of what
an accelerated air flow can do to a combustible material. The WTC was
built on the principle of the hollow tube... it's strength was like
putting pressure on a straw from tip to end... but it's weakness is
found in any side pressure which will collapse it easily.
*Open air burning <http://www.answers.com/topic/dirty-burn>
temperatures:* 260-315 °C (500-599 °F)
*Maximum burning temperature:* 980 °C (1796 °F)
It is the ignorance of belief that casts aspersions on an entire group
by the actions of a few. "there's battle lines being drawn, nobody's
right if everybody's wrong" and "paranoia strikes deep, into your life
it will creep, it comes when your always afraid, step out of line, the
man come and take you away"... Bufffalo Springfield
Fear is the naked heart of reality. David Ick is Icky. Listen at your
own risk, repeat it at your own embarrassment.
And this: This is not a new debate here. I've already seen and heard to
many if's, and's or but's about the WTC. Did you check out what would
happen with a natural gas explosion and what it do with an acclerant
like jet fuel? There are no mountains of evidence... there are
mountains of speculation. The possibility of a collapse of the WTC was a
simple precaution. We always evacuated people from buildings on fire
because the possibility of full involment and collapse has to be treated
as immenant. Imagine what would have happened and the loss of life if
the people were allowed to stay or took their time getting out.
Wouldn't it be just as plausible that if there were bombs planted they
they were planted by Islamic terrorists. Why the automatic assumption
that our own people did such a thing unless it fits your own agenda?
Over 17 Arabs have been proven to have participated in the bombings and
one of the ring leaders, a man who had entered the United Stares on an
Iraqi passport under the name of Ramzi Yousef--was involved in another
stupendous bombing conspiracy. In January 1995, Yousef and his
associates plotted to blow up eleven U.S. commercial aircraft in one
spectacular day of terrorist rage. The bombs were to be made of a liquid
explosive designed to pass through airport metal detectors. But while
mixing his chemical brew in a Manila apartment, Yousef started a fire.
He was forced to flee, leaving behind a computer that contained the
information that led to his arrest a month later in Pakistan. Among the
items found in his possession was a letter threatening Filipino
interests if a comrade held in custody were not released. It claimed the
"ability to make and use chemicals and poisonous gas... for use against
vital institutions and residential populations and the sources of
drinking water." http://www.fas.org/irp/world/iraq/956-tni.htm
<http://www.fas.org/irp/world/iraq/956-tni.htm>
In a 2004 video, apparently acknowledging responsibility for the
attacks, bin Laden states that he was motivated by the 1982 Lebanon War,
for which he held the U.S. partially responsible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11,_2001_attacks
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11,_2001_attacks>
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11,_2001_attacks>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_tapes
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_tapes>
I admit to being caustic... and even worse but I try my damdest not to
attack anyone personally given a preferance of dealing with the issue
instead. In my nearly 10 years on this list, I do not recall ever having
called anyone a liar... show me where I did. Mike
-----------------------------------------------------------
Mike
We have more than a dozen excellent 9/11 videos in our website, that
focus on the wide range of explosions reported by hundreds/thousands of
people. All these explosions were mainly coming from around the basement
and up to the 60th floors. A few explosions were reported as high as the
70th/78th floors. How do you explain these explosions occurring before
and after the two planes/missiles hit these buildings with ALL
explosions reported on floors, well below where the planes/missiles hit?
That's right, there is now heaps of evidence revealing missiles.
Oh...... no way, our private corporation US government could not do
this....... but yes.......a few Arabs could pull this off and time it
perfectly when Norad was off line and be able to fly these huge jets.
How convenient.
Find yourself at least half a day Mike and watch these videos
http://www.loveforlife.com.au/video_dvd.
After hundreds of hours spent researching 9/11 since early 2002 and with
the mountains of solid evidence at hand
http://www.loveforlife.com.au/node/86, I can say without any doubt
whatsoever that NO Arabs were involved with the planning of 9/11, with
the hijacking of all 9/11 planes, with the flying of any 9/11 planes and
with the overall manning of the operation as it was happening.
Whatever evidence that might have been found with the WTC demolition
operations centre, was destroyed when WTC 7 was demolished by
explosives. In your way of thinking Mike, WTC 7, a 40+ story building
was ONLY wired up with explosives, to PULL IT, during the day of 9/11
but only after the planes hit WTC1 & WTC2 because there would be no
other reason to pull it. Are you 100% sure that this would have happened
while all the mayhem was going on next door?
How did the BBC and Mayor Rudolph Giuliani know that WTC7 was collapsing
at least 20 minutes before it happened?
What about all those WTC7 workers/rescue workers warning heaps of people
to get out of the way because WTC7 was about to collapse? Please explain
Mike?
Since Sept 11 2001, The FBI, even until today have never listed Osama
Bin Laden as a suspect with 9/11. When asked, the FBI says they have no
evidence. If you don't believe me, Ring the FBI yourself or check their
website. What goes on here Mike?
Then we have your Patriots Act, an 800+ page document that suddenly
appears out of nowhere and is brought into action almost overnight after
Sept 11 2001. How did this happen? Who prepared it? Who in your
government knew about it before 9/11? Could the staff of George Bush
create this 800+ document from scratch within 48 hours of 9/11 and have
it passed through congress? Besides the loss of freedom forced upon most
American citizens, have any private corporation/multi/transnational
private corporations been effected in any way by the Patriots Act?
If you say yes, show me the evidence.
Who benefited long-term from 9/11, The US citizens? The Australian
citizens? The Canadian Citizens? The New Zealand citizens? The British
Citizens? The European citizens? The Asian citizens? The Middle Eastern
citizens? or private corporation/multi/transnational private
corporations? Who benefited Mike?
Then you have one of George Bush Junior's favourite bonking partners
Condoleezza Rice saying in Nov/Dec 2001 that her government has lots of
unarguable evidence tying Arabs/Al Qaeda with 9/11 and later on the same
statement was made with Iraq and WMD. Where is this evidence
Condoleezza? We are all still waiting 5 to 6 years later?
Oh its just a coincidence that George Bush Junior's brother was in
control of the overall security operations of WTC1 and WTC2. Oh that's
just a coincidence. And what about the various days when the two
buildings were shut down during 2001, prior 9/11. Are you aware of this?
Are you also aware that ONLY private corporations are/were involved with
the day to day operations of WTC1, WTC2 and WTC7. No good old American
public servants were/are involved.
Are you also aware of the use of remote control/wireless detonations of
buildings these days that do not require miles of interlinking wires to
set of all the explosives?
There are numerous other facts which I could state but I do not want to
spoil the important exercise that your brain requires if you work your
way through all the 9/11 video's and articles in our website.
You are one of the moderators for over 500 Superconsciousness members
Mike and you often have a caustic tongue with those you wish to attack.
In your last reply to Fiona and I, you called us liars. We now ask you
to prove to Fiona and I and all members of Superconsciousness that we
are liars. Show us the unarguable evidence that you have that we are
liars. If you can't, then you are to be seen as the liar, a 70+ year old
arrogant ex-policeman who only talks around things for the sake of
attacking ones character without ever addressing the facts, the logic,
the evidence at hand.
Also, You are wrong Acharya in saying that Muslim/Arabs were involved
with 9/11. Where is this unarguable evidence you have Acharya to back
this up? If you don't have this unarguable evidence why are you accusing
Muslims/Arabs?
Arthur Cristian
--------------------------------------------------
m c wrote:
Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they are not out to get
you. It looked that way, but the logistics of such a demolition would be
impossible. In terms of tons, how much explosives would it require to
drop a building the size of the twin towers? What would you attached
them to that would be out of sight? Would you have to dig through the
concrete to attach them to the beams? And nobody saw a thing?
Mike
------------------------------------------------
This email was directed at Arthur & Fiona Cristian. (this is the email
that Mike states we are liars)
m c wrote: The problem is, you are doing the same thing with your mumbo
jumbo (that is: "unintelligible or incomprehensible language or
gibberish that engages language or activity intended to confuse,
complicate or produce some obscure ritual."
What I perceive is that one indoctrination deserves another. It's the
pot calling the kettle black syndrome. There is no prejudice quite so
complete as the one you convince yourself of. If one lies and repeats
the lie over time and if it goes unchallenged, it tends to become truth
to the teller.
Mike
------------------------------------------------------------------------
acharya_s at yahoo.com wrote:
"Just [as] alcoholics or drug addicts must acknowledge that they have an
addiction problem, we Muslims need to accept that there is a problem
within our communities. Only when Muslims admit that 9/11 and 7/7 were
the work of Muslim terrorists can we move forward to the next juncture:
which is recognising the hard truth that Islam does permit the use of
violence. Muslims who deny this, preferring instead to mouth easy
platitudes about how Islam is nothing but a religion of peace, make the
job easier for the radicals who can point to passages in the Koran, set
down in black and white, that instruct on the killing of unbelievers.
Hallelujah! (Irony.)
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